The poem in Philippians 2 is the key to everything:
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
If our faith isn’t always rational, consider that it wasn’t rational for the Creator of the universe to die for his creations.
If our faith is especially attractive to the lowly and weak, consider that when the God of the universe became a baby, he could not even hold his head up on his own.
If the Bible is not distinctive, consider that Jesus was born to poor parents in a filthy stable in an unimportant town in an oppressed nation.
If our faith is not taken seriously by the rich, the powerful, and the intellectuals, consider that Jesus’ birth was announced only to a group of shepherds.
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written,
”I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,
AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE.”Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God. But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”
1 Corinthians 1:18-31
The word kenosis comes from the Greek word for “emptiness”, and it refers to the idea that Jesus emptied himself of his divine glory and dignity in order to be incarnated as a human. He gave it all up so that he could become what he wanted to save. Even apart from his words and actions, the very nature of Jesus Christ’s incarnation shows us how we should conduct ourselves as Christians.
We follow a foolish faith. We are fools for believing it. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise! His wisdom is above all others, but it is not merely an enhanced version of our own; it is altogether different.
And God, in his wisdom, engineered a world in which faith and trust are valued above all else. He will never allow his existence to be proven; he has given enough evidence to satisfy those who already believe, but not enough to convince those that do not, so that it is impossible to reach him without faith.
If you require proof in order to believe, you will never find it, but if you believe first, you will find that you have all the proof you need. And this is foolishness.
Amen. Well put, Kev.
Does the reality that we will never find absolute proof of God mean that all these endeavors to prove Creationist theories and attempts to prove Scripture through archaeology simply worthless attempts?
To be blunt, should we stop wasting our time trying to prove something that can’t be proven?
Kevin,
I waited for part 2 before commenting. I have been watching the give and take on the last GAB and have come to the conclusion that we all have come to conclusions for reasons that most of us will never understand. I try to believe that I am a rational person and I see people making what I think are irrational decisions all the time but to them their decision makes sense. Your comments here all make sense to me but to those who have rejected God and the Bible I am sure that they will see your comments as meaningless. One comment I would like to make though has to do with your statement:
If you require proof in order to believe, you will never find it, but if you believe first, you will find that you have all the proof you need. And this is foolishness.
While I basically agree with that and while I agree that it is only the Holy Spirit that can take the Word of God and make it real to us so that we are able to rely on it, I had reason to believe the Bible long before I was saved. I couldn’t prove the Bible true just as I can’t personally prove that the earth is round, but I saw much evidence that the Bible was true. It is true that we are able to understand the evidence of the Bible in a much clearer way when we start agreeing with God instead of arguing with Him. I never try to persuade people that the Bible is true any more. I just try to get them to read it so that they at least know what they are rejecting. I do not think faith has to be a total leap in the dark, some things about the message God has given us has to make sense before we can believe. But I agree that once we believe we see things differently and have all the proof we need. By faith we understand!
Good Post!
Bruce -
I agree with you 100%. I tried to choose my words carefully – I have seen many people say "I won't believe the Bible is true without proof", and to them I say, "you will never find it." But like you said, there is definitely enough evidence so that if someone truly does want to believe, they will find that the Christian worldview is historically plausible. You must always start with faith, though, however small that faith is.
To those without faith, it is foolish and we cannot convince them otherwise without the help of the Spirit.
Greg –
I am very tempted to categorically deny the effectiveness of non-gospel-related apologetics (e.g. creationism, the flood, etc.), but I believe this is just a reaction to seeing people miss the point when dialoguing with non-Christians. A person can believe in a Biblical flood and still go to hell, so why do we try so hard to get them to believe in something that cannot save them?
I have some other ideas on what 1 Peter 3:15 means when it says we should be “ready to give an answer.” I’ll flesh out my thoughts and post it here sometime soon.
“If you require proof in order to believe, you will never find it, but if you believe first, you will find that you have all the proof you need. And this is foolishness.”
Spoken like a true presuppositionalist!
And Greg, of course it can be proven, just go have a serious conversation with Mr. Iverson (who without even a blush says that he has immediate and on hand proof for a young earth intelligent creation) or Mr. Sanchez who could probably make you blush for saying things like proving Scripture through archaeology is worthless…
Ryan -
I would probably hold to aspects of presuppositionalism as well as very minor fideism, but either way I try to avoid giving it a name because I don’t want to imply that I believe anything other than exactly what I say.
Regarding Mr. Iverson or Mr. Sanchez: I am not looking for proof, but there are a few people at Grab a Brew the first Tuesday of every month who are. If Sanchez, Iverson, or even Josh McDowell were to come out sometime and present their case, I guarantee two things: 1) that they would leave frustrated, and 2) that they would not make any converts. There are much deeper reasons than science that those people do not believe, and so it is diversionary to address something that is not the root cause of unbelief. We may be able to defeat their minds but we will probably not win their hearts. And God cares nothing for intellectual assent if it is not backed by faith, hope and love.
If there’s one thing I have learned in my two years out of Emmaus, it’s that there is usually a big difference between the people you read about in a textbook and the people you meet in real life. I didn’t become a presuppositionalist because I studied all the historical standpoints on faith and chose that one as the best; I became a presuppositionalist because it is first of all consistent with what I read in the Bible about faith, and secondly because it is consistent with what I see in the world.
I guess my point is just that Christian Evidences is much better suited for a Christian to reinforce his own faith than to use it to try to convince non-Christians that they should believe. Salvation is by grace, through faith; not through acknowledgement of facts.
What you propose, Kevin, is miraculous: that we could be found in likeness of Jesus, who himself took upon the form of a man.
If we are to follow Jesus’ example we must be re-made. Undone and wrapped anew. Inspected and rebuilt. It is passive. It is not the work of educators, attorneys, and salesmen. It is not even the work of a friend.
For, “by His doing you are in Christ Jesus…”
You will recall that Bible school is for Christians (checking an application reveals churched-friendly questions); hence your statement is valid about “apologetics” being for Christians to defend an existing belief system.
Thanks for this, Kevin.
I’m looking forward to more.
Lori